4 Queries about DB clustering

Hi, Below are few queries:
1. Say for 2 nodes cluster, Do we need to have 2 copies of Databases( 1 on
each node)
2. Hows does the data Synchronization between different nodes of databases
takes place?
3. In Active/Passive mode, does the passive node database is exactly in the
same state (in terms of data) as that of Active?
4. Is 'Server Cluster' specifically for DB clustering ?
Thanks in advance,
Pankaj A. Chitriv
Answers Inline
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"Pankaj" <pankajchitriv@.rediffmail.com(donotspam)> wrote in message
news:847A2BE3-74E1-4B9E-9D61-EEE40D117155@.microsoft.com...
> Hi, Below are few queries:
> 1. Say for 2 nodes cluster, Do we need to have 2 copies of Databases( 1 on
> each node)
No. Data is on shared storage and is controlled by one node at a time.
> 2. Hows does the data Synchronization between different nodes of databases
> takes place?
There is no synchronization. There is a single data store. Access to this
store is arbitrated by the cluster software.
> 3. In Active/Passive mode, does the passive node database is exactly in
the
> same state (in terms of data) as that of Active?
>
Clustering is failover not scaleout technology.

> 4. Is 'Server Cluster' specifically for DB clustering ?
I am not sure what you mean by "Server Cluster"?
> Thanks in advance,
> Pankaj A. Chitriv
>
|||Thanks Geoff.
"Server Cluster" is a inbuild clustering service provided by Windows 2003
Server.
Just wondering, whether that Single Data Store is a seperate windows system?
If so what if that system breaks down? Is that the case that we do DB
clustering only to distribute the processing capabilities?
What I understood by Single Data Store means is there will be a system on
which SQL DB will be created and there would be multiple servers accessing
the same database. But this cannot be called as DB clustering as we don't
have to configure any VIP to access the single data store. Can you clarify
this please?
Thanks a lot again for your answers.
Regards
Pankaj A. Chitriv
"Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:

> Answers Inline
> --
> Geoff N. Hiten
> Microsoft SQL Server MVP
> Senior Database Administrator
> Careerbuilder.com
> I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
> www.sqlpass.org
> "Pankaj" <pankajchitriv@.rediffmail.com(donotspam)> wrote in message
> news:847A2BE3-74E1-4B9E-9D61-EEE40D117155@.microsoft.com...
> No. Data is on shared storage and is controlled by one node at a time.
> There is no synchronization. There is a single data store. Access to this
> store is arbitrated by the cluster software.
> the
> Clustering is failover not scaleout technology.
> I am not sure what you mean by "Server Cluster"?
>
>
|||Server clustering is available on Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition.
"Single Data Store" is not a service, it is a description. All data resides
on a single logical device physically connected to all host nodes. This can
be a SCSI array, a Fiber array, or a SAN. Ownership of this device is
arbitrated by the cluster service. Microsoft SQL DB clustering exists as a
failover technology only and has no distributed computing capabilities. It
is not a scale-out technology. One server owns the entire database and no
other server can access the data without moving the entire SQL instance to
another host. Active-Passive and Active-Active are not accurate
descriptions of the current SQL clustering technology but are somewhat
misleading holdovers from an earlier version.
Again, clustering is for availability and does not allow multiple
simultaneous connections to the data store from different host nodes.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"Pankaj" <pankajchitriv@.rediffmail.com(donotspam)> wrote in message
news:4A51BB01-D028-4B3B-9244-12EFA8469987@.microsoft.com...
> Thanks Geoff.
> "Server Cluster" is a inbuild clustering service provided by Windows 2003
> Server.
> Just wondering, whether that Single Data Store is a seperate windows
system?[vbcol=seagreen]
> If so what if that system breaks down? Is that the case that we do DB
> clustering only to distribute the processing capabilities?
> What I understood by Single Data Store means is there will be a system on
> which SQL DB will be created and there would be multiple servers accessing
> the same database. But this cannot be called as DB clustering as we don't
> have to configure any VIP to access the single data store. Can you clarify
> this please?
> Thanks a lot again for your answers.
> Regards
> Pankaj A. Chitriv
> "Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:
Databases( 1 on[vbcol=seagreen]
databases[vbcol=seagreen]
this[vbcol=seagreen]
in[vbcol=seagreen]
|||Hi Geoff.
Thankyou very much for your help. It is just great. I really really
appreciate it.
Further, to summarise our discussion what I understood to implement the SQL
Db Cluster is:
1. I need to have SCSI array, a Fiber array, or a SAN as a shared device
"on which I'll install SQL Server Database".
2. Say in a 2 node cluster, both the nodes would be typically Windows 2k3
Server systems, with the SQL Server Instance reference (SQL Client) to the
shared device on which SQL Server is installed.
3. Say in Active / Passive mode, only 1 Win2k3 system will be utilized and
in case of faliure, the other win2k3 server node will be active.
4. I need to install SQL Client on both the nodes and Sql Server on shared
device.
5. Just wondering whether stored procedures of SQL DB will be executed on
the shared drive or on the Node. Does the shared drive have processing
capabilities?
With this queries clarified , I'm ready to shoot :-).
I really appreciate your help and request your comment on above queries.
Regards,
Pankaj A. Chitriv
"Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:

> Server clustering is available on Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition.
> "Single Data Store" is not a service, it is a description. All data resides
> on a single logical device physically connected to all host nodes. This can
> be a SCSI array, a Fiber array, or a SAN. Ownership of this device is
> arbitrated by the cluster service. Microsoft SQL DB clustering exists as a
> failover technology only and has no distributed computing capabilities. It
> is not a scale-out technology. One server owns the entire database and no
> other server can access the data without moving the entire SQL instance to
> another host. Active-Passive and Active-Active are not accurate
> descriptions of the current SQL clustering technology but are somewhat
> misleading holdovers from an earlier version.
> Again, clustering is for availability and does not allow multiple
> simultaneous connections to the data store from different host nodes.
> --
> Geoff N. Hiten
> Microsoft SQL Server MVP
> Senior Database Administrator
> Careerbuilder.com
> I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
> www.sqlpass.org
> "Pankaj" <pankajchitriv@.rediffmail.com(donotspam)> wrote in message
> news:4A51BB01-D028-4B3B-9244-12EFA8469987@.microsoft.com...
> system?
> Databases( 1 on
> databases
> this
> in
>
>
|||You are getting closer. More comments inline.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"Pankaj" <pankajchitriv@.rediffmail.com(donotspam)> wrote in message
news:1D8FA145-7AF2-4EBE-9FA1-FD9822233F81@.microsoft.com...
> Hi Geoff.
> Thankyou very much for your help. It is just great. I really really
> appreciate it.
> Further, to summarise our discussion what I understood to implement the
SQL
> Db Cluster is:
> 1. I need to have SCSI array, a Fiber array, or a SAN as a shared device
> "on which I'll install SQL Server Database".
The database(s) will live on the shared storage. SQL binaries will live on
the local disks of each cluster host.
> 2. Say in a 2 node cluster, both the nodes would be typically Windows 2k3
> Server systems, with the SQL Server Instance reference (SQL Client) to the
> shared device on which SQL Server is installed.
A basic two-node SQL cluster will have four systems visible. There are the
two physical host nodes. There is the cluster vrtual server itself. There
is the SQL Server virtual server. Each virtual system must have a minimum
of one unique IP address, one unique network name, and a physical disk
device located on the shared array. You access the SQL server by connecting
to the virtual server by name or IP address.
>

> 3. Say in Active / Passive mode, only 1 Win2k3 system will be utilized and
> in case of faliure, the other win2k3 server node will be active.
>
Correct. The current terms are single-instance and multi-instance. Each
new instance of SQL will have its own disk(s), IP address(es), and Network
name. Once an instance is installed, you can set the preferred host order
to determine the "normal" home host for that instance. You can have up to
16 instances on a single cluster.

> 4. I need to install SQL Client on both the nodes and Sql Server on shared
> device.
>
First you install MSCS (Clustering). Windows 2003 has an excellent
clustering wizard that makes it very difficult to create a non-working
cluster. Then you install a clustered instance of SQL server, running the
install CD from the node that currently owns the disk resource you wish to
use as the first SQL disk. You can assign additional disks after
installation. The installer writes the executable files to each host node
you choose as part of the installation. This includes server and client
components.

> 5. Just wondering whether stored procedures of SQL DB will be executed on
> the shared drive or on the Node. Does the shared drive have processing
> capabilities?
The binaries are on each host node. The memory and CPU resources come from
the host node. The data is stored on the shared array. SQL uses a "Shared
Nothing" model so after installation you can run any instance from any host
node, regardless of whether any other node or instance is running.
[vbcol=seagreen]
> With this queries clarified , I'm ready to shoot :-).
> I really appreciate your help and request your comment on above queries.
> Regards,
> Pankaj A. Chitriv
>
>
> "Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:
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|||I have a question for Geoff.
I have a similar situation where I plan to install/configure multi-instance
cluster.
My question is
a) as we plan to use/assign drive letters what care shoud be taken for
multi-instance cluster (3 active 1, passive/standby)?
Thanks.
Kamal.
"Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:

> You are getting closer. More comments inline.
> --
> Geoff N. Hiten
> Microsoft SQL Server MVP
> Senior Database Administrator
> Careerbuilder.com
> I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
> www.sqlpass.org
> "Pankaj" <pankajchitriv@.rediffmail.com(donotspam)> wrote in message
> news:1D8FA145-7AF2-4EBE-9FA1-FD9822233F81@.microsoft.com...
> SQL
> The database(s) will live on the shared storage. SQL binaries will live on
> the local disks of each cluster host.
> A basic two-node SQL cluster will have four systems visible. There are the
> two physical host nodes. There is the cluster vrtual server itself. There
> is the SQL Server virtual server. Each virtual system must have a minimum
> of one unique IP address, one unique network name, and a physical disk
> device located on the shared array. You access the SQL server by connecting
> to the virtual server by name or IP address.
> Correct. The current terms are single-instance and multi-instance. Each
> new instance of SQL will have its own disk(s), IP address(es), and Network
> name. Once an instance is installed, you can set the preferred host order
> to determine the "normal" home host for that instance. You can have up to
> 16 instances on a single cluster.
> First you install MSCS (Clustering). Windows 2003 has an excellent
> clustering wizard that makes it very difficult to create a non-working
> cluster. Then you install a clustered instance of SQL server, running the
> install CD from the node that currently owns the disk resource you wish to
> use as the first SQL disk. You can assign additional disks after
> installation. The installer writes the executable files to each host node
> you choose as part of the installation. This includes server and client
> components.
>
> The binaries are on each host node. The memory and CPU resources come from
> the host node. The data is stored on the shared array. SQL uses a "Shared
> Nothing" model so after installation you can run any instance from any host
> node, regardless of whether any other node or instance is running.
> Edition.
> resides
> can
> as a
> It
> no
> to
> 2003
> on
> accessing
> don't
> clarify
> time.
> to
> exactly
>
>
|||All drives will need to be visible to all hosts for failover. Drive letters
are assigned cluster-wide for shared resources. The easiest way is to
pretend you are building a multi-instance stand-alone system where SQL Data
and Logs from multiple instances cannot intersect on the same LUN. Also
remember to add a drive for MSDTC and for the Quorum. Don't forget to leave
room for expansion.
Example
C for local boot, Z for local CD-ROM (Old Novell habit)
Q for Quorum, M for MSDTC
K,L for SQLInstance1 data and logs respectively
R,S for SQLInstance2 data and logs respectively
lather, rinse, repeat.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"Kamal Hassan" <KamalHassan@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5D8375C6-8269-46FC-B619-BD75E0F8A6CD@.microsoft.com...
> I have a question for Geoff.
> I have a similar situation where I plan to install/configure
multi-instance[vbcol=seagreen]
> cluster.
> My question is
> a) as we plan to use/assign drive letters what care shoud be taken for
> multi-instance cluster (3 active 1, passive/standby)?
> Thanks.
> Kamal.
>
>
> "Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:
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|||First, manythanks for quick reply.
In your suggestion is the SQLinstance1 and SQLInstance refer to as ACTIVE
nodes with StandyBy Server or ?
We are not using MSDTC do we still have to setup/configure? and what do you
mean don't forget to leave for expnasion?
Thanks a lot!
Kamal.
"Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:

> All drives will need to be visible to all hosts for failover. Drive letters
> are assigned cluster-wide for shared resources. The easiest way is to
> pretend you are building a multi-instance stand-alone system where SQL Data
> and Logs from multiple instances cannot intersect on the same LUN. Also
> remember to add a drive for MSDTC and for the Quorum. Don't forget to leave
> room for expansion.
> Example
> C for local boot, Z for local CD-ROM (Old Novell habit)
> Q for Quorum, M for MSDTC
> K,L for SQLInstance1 data and logs respectively
> R,S for SQLInstance2 data and logs respectively
> lather, rinse, repeat.
>
> --
> Geoff N. Hiten
> Microsoft SQL Server MVP
> Senior Database Administrator
> Careerbuilder.com
> I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
> www.sqlpass.org
> "Kamal Hassan" <KamalHassan@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:5D8375C6-8269-46FC-B619-BD75E0F8A6CD@.microsoft.com...
> multi-instance
> the
> device
> on
> 2k3
> the
> the
> There
> minimum
> connecting
> and
> Each
> Network
> order
> to
> shared
> the
> to
> node
> on
> processing
> from
> "Shared
> host
> queries.
> This
> is
> exists
> capabilities.
> and
> instance
> somewhat
> nodes.
> Windows
> windows
> DB
> system
> we
> message
> a
> of
> Access
>
>
|||Active\Active and Active\Passive are not accurate terms. Each SQL instance
is its own virtual server.
SQLInstance1 and 2 refer to the SQL virtual servers\instances. The host
nodes are all configured identically.
You will have to add disk storage sometime down the road. Leave empty drive
letters for adding new disk resources.
Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator
Careerbuilder.com
I support the Professional Association for SQL Server
www.sqlpass.org
"Kamal Hassan" <KamalHassan@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:DD172480-C6FA-41A6-86CC-65A2C790D3C6@.microsoft.com...
> First, manythanks for quick reply.
> In your suggestion is the SQLinstance1 and SQLInstance refer to as ACTIVE
> nodes with StandyBy Server or ?
> We are not using MSDTC do we still have to setup/configure? and what do
you[vbcol=seagreen]
> mean don't forget to leave for expnasion?
> Thanks a lot!
> Kamal.
>
> "Geoff N. Hiten" wrote:
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